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Stress on both sides and between the PCUSA, EPC

This is a conversation about relationships: The relationship of congregations to specific denominations, the mobility of congregations between denominations, and the relationship of denominations to one another.

 

First Presbyterian Church of Anytown, U.S.A. will be our exemplar. FPC has always been a Presbyterian church. At its formation it was affiliated with denomination “X,” which subsequently became denomination “Y” and then in 1983 became a part of the “Reunion” denomination known as the Presbyterian Church (USA). First Presbyterian Church really didn’t change, but its denominational moniker did. FPC saw no reason at the time to exercise the right to “not participate” in reunion and also saw no reason to protect itself against the assertion of a denominational trust over its assets.

 

FPC hasn’t changed much since then, but the denomination with which it is affiliated never seems to get beyond bickering over things that the members of FPC see as Biblically crystal clear. As a result, over the past 27 years, FPC has grown increasingly alienated from the denomination. It no longer uses denominational Christian education materials. Its pastor was educated in a theologically Reformed, but not officially PCUSA seminary. Its people believe in the broad Christian theology articulated in the Apostle’s Creed, the small percentage of them that grew up Presbyterian remember some of the Westminster standards, but very few have any familiarity with the library of material contained in the Book of Confessions.

 

The people of FPC are largely pro-Israel, pro-life, pro-traditional marriage and pro-Jesus. They are kind, generous, thoughtful people whose faith is fairly personal and whose social politics are fairly conservative. They are more interested in their local community than in the national church and they are more concerned with winning their neighbors to faith in Jesus Christ than in participating in another round of debates about things on which they believe the Bible is uncompromisingly clear. 

 

Think I’m overstating things? Ninety-seven congregations just like that grew so weary of their relationship with the PCUSA that they initiated the very painful process of re-aligning with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC). Fifty-five of those congregations were dismissed from PCUSA presbyteries into a geographic presbytery of the EPC. Another 42 congregations are making their transition into the EPC through the New Wineskins non-geographic presbytery.

 

Ninety-seven congregations are a lot to lose, and a lot to absorb. The loss of large congregations like Fair Oaks in Sacramento (Calif.), First Baton Rouge (La.), Signal Mountain (Tenn.), Memorial Park (Pittsburgh, Pa.), and Covenant (West Lafayette, Indiana) has resulted in significant adjustments on both sides. For presbyteries like San Joaquin, dismissals to the EPC may result in the presbytery’s demise. Admittedly, there is stress on both sides of the bridge and there is tension between.

When this migration began in earnest three years ago, the EPC had 180 congregations. Imagine absorbing nearly 100 new congregations into a denomination of that size. Examinations related to adherence to The Westminster Confession of Faith have to be administered to teaching and ruling elders. Issues of property and polity have to be settled. The people of the EPC have to trust that those arriving from the PCUSA aren’t just a liberal Trojan horse and the immigrant Presbyterians have to learn to live in a new reality. The EPC itself is now struggling through the process of living into its own affirmation that gender is a non-essential and what to do in those presbyteries where praxis does not line up with their espoused theology.

  

Feeling the sting of being “left behind,” and looking elsewhere for someone to blame, some in the PCUSA have alleged that the EPC is actively recruiting congregations or, as one person put it, “they’re obviously poaching our sheep.” Peace River Presbytery was so sure that the EPC had recruited one of its congregations that it asked the 218th GA of the PCUSA (2008) to investigate its concern that the EPC is “actively pursuing a strategy to persuade Presbyterian Church (USA) churches to disaffiliate with the Presbyterian Church (USA) and be dismissed to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church.”

 

In response to that allegation, the GA Formed an investigative committee chaired by the Rev. Krystin Granberg (New York City Presbytery), who is also a member of the General Assembly Committee on Ecumenical Relations (GACER). Joining her are the Revs. Terry Epling (Giddings-Lovejoy Presbytery), Joy Kaufmann (Huntingdon Presbytery), Eugene Turner (Cayuga-Syracuse Presbytery) and Jeffrey Vamos (New Brunswick Presbytery). The Rev. Robina Winbush, associate stated clerk and director of the Department of Agency and Ecumenical Relations for the Office of the General Assembly, is serving as staff to the group.

 

The task force began its work by conducting interviews with representatives from all parties involved in congregations that had made, or were in the process of making, the transition from the PCUSA to the EPC in nine presbyteries. Presbytery staff, congregational leadership, and members who were both supportive and non-supportive of the decision made by the congregation to re-align were interviewed in Eastminster, Northern Alabama, Peace River, Pittsburgh, Redstone, Sacramento, South Louisiana, Wabash Valley and Western North Carolina. It is not clear if other PCUSA presbyteries that have dismissed congregations to the EPC since the 2008 GA have been included in the investigative process.

 

The process employed by the Joint Commission of the EPC and the New Wineskins Association of Churches to accommodate PCUSA congregations desiring to re-align actually assures that no conversations are ever initiated from the EPC to those in the PCUSA. And when a congregation makes contact with the EPC, the process followed is designed to ensure that the congregation isn’t just trying to “get out” of the PCUSA but is fully informed and has a real desire to “be in” the EPC.

 

After more than 18 months since its formation and only six months prior to the GA to which it is scheduled to report, the investigating committee finally had a meeting with representatives from the EPC in mid-January. The outcomes of that meeting are not being made public.

 

The committee will report its findings and recommendations to the General Assembly Committee on Ecumenical Relations, which will in turn report its recommendations to the 219th General Assembly in July. Only after the commissioners to the General Assembly have the opportunity to hear and take action, will the future of the relationship between the PCUSA and the EPC be clarified.

 

Beyond the EPC, PCUSA congregations are also actively re-aligning with other denominations including the Presbyterian Church in America and the Evangelical Covenant Church. It is not known whether investigations by the Ecumenical Relations Committee of the PCUSA General Assembly are underway regarding those dismissals.

 

 

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Comments  27

  • Query 2 Feb, 01:31 PM

    I am curious what this line in your article means: "what to do in those presbyteries where praxis does not line up with their espoused theology."

    Would you please elaborate on this? Thank you.
  • Bill Lafferty 2 Feb, 02:24 PM

    Not to mention the Godless act of giving per capita offerings to lawyers to take peoples churchs from them that they bought and paided for. Did the PCUSA ever read the great commission found in Mat 28, might be a better place to put the money. Bill
  • Daniel B. Pope, Sr., 2 Feb, 02:59 PM


    There are many of us that are looking for Church Homes, but I see no eagerness to "rescue the perishing", those who are not being fed and nourished. There is no Home Missionary Work by the EPC, at least in the Bradenton sarasota Area. Or any attempt to establish a church for those that ar truly believe in the Word, the Holy Bible, the Sanctity of Marriage, and The Trinity. That doesn't mean there are not good churches out there, but those traditional Presbyterians, are left out "in The Cold", by the EPC. whic I strongly believe in their essentials and their position papers and the fact that the congregration has two representatives to one Minister, in their Governance and the Local Church belongs to God and not to the denmonation.
  • Bill Arthur 2 Feb, 03:06 PM

    I don't expect much of value to come out of this committee. The PCUSA will be defending its turf and will fail to admit that congregations are anxious to leave due to the more liberal direction that this denomination has been heading for many years. There are still many congregations that feel that being faithful to God is more important than being loyal to an unfaithful denomination that has lost its way. Lets face it, the PCUSA is more interested in being politically correct than in being part of the Church of Jesus Christ. The PCUSA has abandoned us, not those congregations that have aligned with more Christian denominations.
  • Carmen Fowler 2 Feb, 03:07 PM

    Thanks for the question, Query.

    The EPC says that the ordination of women is a non-essential. However, in some presbyteries, it is treated as an essential.


  • Viola 2 Feb, 03:28 PM

    Thank you Carmen. It is interesting to see both sides of this issue, and it will help if the committee tries to give a bad report.
  • Clarification 2 Feb, 04:15 PM

    In the EPC, ordination of women is a non-essential at the denominational level. In some presbyteries, the exclusion of women from ordination is essential. Nowhere in the EPC is allowing the ordination of women considered essential.

    Before the movement of New Wineskins congregatations to the EPC began, the ordination of women was was exceptional. At that time, there was only one installed female pastor in the EPC, (her call was to minister to women alone). Female ministers will likely find their ordination frowned upon more than embraced by current EPC congregations.

    The full inclusion of women into the life of the EPC is one of the growing pains the denomination will face going forward. This may be the place that the "liberal Trojan horse" arises for the EPC, with many of those who left the PC(USA) shocked to be cast in the role of liberals. Though a moderator of the New Wineskins group has boldly proclaimed "we're bringing our women with us", it remains to be seen the extent to which the ordination of women will be practiced in the new EPC.
  • Steven S. Bryant 2 Feb, 04:28 PM

    Our EPC position paper on the ordination of women states:

    "The Evangelical Presbyterian Church does not believe that the issue of the ordination of women is an essential of the faith. The historic Reformed position on the scriptural doctrine of government by elders is believed to be that form needed for the perfecting of the order of the visible church, but has never been considered to be essential to its existence.... Thus, while some churches may ordain women and some may decline to do so, neither position is essential to the existence of the church. Since people of good faith who equally love the Lord and hold to the infallibility of Scripture differ on this issue, and since uniformity of view and practice is not essential to the existence of the visible church, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church has chosen to leave this decision to the Spirit-guided consciences of particular congregations concerning the ordination of women as elders and deacons, and to the presbyteries concerning the ordination of women as ministers."


    What are the Essentials in the EPC?

    All Scripture is self-attesting and being Truth, requires our unreserved submission in all areas of life. The infallible Word of God, the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, is a complete and unified witness to God's redemptive acts culminating in the incarnation of the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible, uniquely and fully inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the supreme and final authority on all matters on which it speaks. On this sure foundation we affirm these additional Essentials of our faith:

    We believe in one God, the sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, infinitely perfect and eternally existing in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To Him be all honor, glory and praise forever!

    Jesus Christ, the living Word, became flesh through His miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit and His virgin birth. He who is true God became true man united in one Person forever. He died on the cross a sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. On the third day He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He now is our High Priest and Mediator.

    The Holy Spirit has come to glorify Christ and to apply the saving work of Christ to our hearts. He convicts us of sin and draws us to the Savior. Indwelling our hearts, He gives new life to us, empowers and imparts gifts to us for service. He instructs and guides us into all truth, and seals us for the day of redemption.

    Being estranged from God and condemned by our sinfulness, our salvation is wholly dependent upon the work of God's free grace. God credits His righteousness to those who put their faith in Christ alone for their salvation, thereby justifies them in His sight. Only such as are born of the Holy Spirit and receive Jesus Christ become children of God and heirs of eternal life.

    The true Church is composed of all persons who through saving faith in Jesus Christ and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit are united together in the body of Christ. The Church finds her visible, yet imperfect, expression in local congregations where the Word of God is preached in its purity and the sacraments are administered in their integrity; where scriptural discipline is practiced, and where loving fellowship is maintained. For her perfecting, she awaits the return of her Lord.

    Jesus Christ will come again to the earth-personally, visibly, and bodily-to judge the living and the dead, and to consummate history and the eternal plan of God. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." (Rev. 22:20)

    The Lord Jesus Christ commands all believers to proclaim the Gospel throughout the world and to make disciples of all nations. Obedience to the Great Commission requires total commitment to "Him who loved us and gave Himself for us." He calls us to a life of self-denying love and service. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Eph. 2:10)
  • Beloved Spear 2 Feb, 04:43 PM

    So out of 180 E.P.C. congregations, there was only one woman ordained...and she was not "called to minister to men?"

    It seems that they aren't really "struggling" very hard. Women are clearly called to serve Christ, to preach the Word, and to administer the sacraments. I've been lead and taught by gracious women in the faith all my life.

    I honestly hope that these congregations fleeing one divided and tense fellowship haven't simply traded one conflict for another.
  • David Fischler 2 Feb, 09:23 PM

    Beloved Spear: Given your use of the third person plural indicates to me that you are not a member of the EPC. That being the case, I would ask you not to judge the extent to which we are "struggling" with the issue.

    In my Presbytery of the East, we have devoted a lot of time to the issue, and have concluded that we as a presbytery are open to the ordination of female teaching elders. There are those who disagree with that position, even within my own congregation, but we have agreed that, because this is not an essential, it is not a matter over which to break fellowship. Other presbyteries are also wrestling with the issue. It is one we take very, very seriously, and we are determined to deal with it in a way that has biblical integrity that also doesn't impair the unity of the enlarging EPC.
  • RevK 3 Feb, 03:47 AM

    "Beyond the EPC, PCUSA congregations are also actively re-aligning with other denominations including the Presbyterian Church in America and the Evangelical Covenant Church.: ...(and insert) as well as the historic, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church.
    [http://www.arpchurch.org/Site/Home.html]
  • Kent Pettit 3 Feb, 08:59 AM

    Are there actually very many PCUSA churches realigning with the PCA?
  • Carmen Fowler 3 Feb, 09:41 AM

    I just wanted to say "thank you" to all of you who are participating in this conversation. All the input you are giving provides texture, much needed background, and excellent context for further thinking. I really appreciate the clarifications offered by those in the EPC. And Mr. Pope in Sarasota, I bet the EPC would be more than happy to talk with you about a church plant in Brandenton. Thanks to each of you - in whatever branch of the Presbyterian vine you are in - for keeping the faith and seeking to extend the Kingdom in the context in which God has called you to labor.
  • Robert Hughes 3 Feb, 10:13 AM

    Thank you for a very well composed article. You cover the basics of the issue very well, and the comments preceding this one show a great depth of knowledge or emotion. It is certainly food for thought as another GA approaches. May the Spirit guide us all.
  • Bill Crawford 3 Feb, 10:22 AM

    I was recently recieved into the Presbytery of the Central South. I'm told it is one of the most "conservative" presbyteries in the EPC. During my examination I was NOT asked about my possition on women's ordination. Nor were the two female Ruling Elders who attended the meeting treated any different.

    My examination was thorough and appropriate. I was not asked about my use of denominational curiculum, my favorite poet, or any number of the questions that seem important in the PCUSA examinations.

    The EPC never recruited our congregation - we recruited them. They recieved us with grace and dignity when our predecessor denomination threatened us with lawsuits and endless procedure.

    The EPC is really just too small to "recruit" and this is why they are not sending out Home Missionaries to gather in all the disenfranchised out there.

    However, the EPC will grow - they are faithful, earnest, and loving people gathered under and in Christ. We have no bones to pick with our brothers and sisters still in the PCUSA we are focused on the future.
  • EP Home Missionaries 3 Feb, 12:40 PM

    Regarding the comment about the EPC's home missionaries & church planting:

    Currently the EPC has three couples who are 'sent' home missionaries of the General Assembly. These are the Davises in Laredo, TX (Transitions Border Ministry) the Browns in New Orleans, LA (Trinity Christian Community, a CCDA in inner-city NOLA), and the Covingtons (also at TCC).

    In addition to this GA home missionaries, there are many, many college ministry staff (mostly in Campus Crusade & Campus Christian Outreach, the endorsed EPC college ministry). However, most EPC home missionaries are sent by their local churches or presbyteries. (Remember, in contrast to the PCUSA, the EPC is a more 'federal' or 'locally controlled' denomination.)

    That said, the National Outreach Office of the General Assembly has shown incredible eagerness to welcome anyone who expresses interest in home missions. The only reason for the limited number is that most of them work through their local churches, and have their health & pensions through their own (EPC endorsed) agencies.

    Regarding church plants, the EPC has a remarkable record of church planting, and every Presbytery has at least one plant underway, to my knowledge. Lest anyone think this is a small number, consider that most of the EPC congregations in Memphis, Denver, & Detroit are the fruit of daughtering arrangements of one or multiple churches in their area. Also consider that most EP Presbyteries have approximately 40 churches. Thus, one plant for every forty particular churches at any given time is a fairly good ratio. If the PCUSA were doing something similar, they would have almost 260 evangelical & Reformed church plants at the current time. Given the recent statistics referred to by the Layman, that is clearly not the case. Indeed, the PCUSA presbytery in my area reports no church plants in 40 years.

    The only issue hindering the planting of churches by the EPC (or the PCA) is money. In both of these Confessional denominations there are more eager young ministers from seminaries like Reformed, Covenant, Erskine, etc, who would like to be church planters than there are opportunities. But again, if the money were there, the plants would multiply like daisies in a meadow in spring.

    Soli Deo Gloria.
  • Beloved Spear 3 Feb, 01:01 PM

    @ David: I appreciate that it is an issue your fellowship takes seriously, and if y'all approach it with the focus on unity that you personally express, I think the issue will not prove divisive.

    The challenge lies in moving from a general principle to the actual practice of that principle.
  • David Fischler 3 Feb, 02:13 PM

    Daniel Pope: the person you should contact is the Rev. Keith Andrews of Glendale Presbyterian Church in Funiak Springs, FL. He is the chair of the Florida Presbytery's Church Development Committee. His e-mail address is

    pastorkeith@glendalechurch.org

    I know he would love to talk to you!
  • David Fischler 3 Feb, 02:18 PM

    Beloved Spear: Thanks!

    Just to give an idea of what EPC Home Missionaries is talking about, in the Presbytery of the East there are sixteen particular churches. (We're the second smallest of our eight presbyteries.) There are four church plants, including mine, with a fifth getting ready to start after being approved in September.
  • Cameron Mott 4 Feb, 11:33 AM

    Have any of the female former-PCUSA teaching elders been ordained/called into a non-transitional EPC presbytery?
  • William J Martin 6 Feb, 06:27 AM

    A member of Florida Presbytery, I respect its attempt to seriously consider the women's issue. When we joined the EPC as a new congregation in 2007, we brought several women elders to the examination. Neither a word of protest nor any apparent discomfort was felt by any of us. But we know that it's currently quite unlikely that a woman teaching elder could be ordained here. Still, the presbytery is committed to continue talking about it. The current practice is not necessarily a fait accompli in the future.
  • Sarah Norman 6 Feb, 10:31 PM

    Cameron: Just another example for you, besides WJM's. Hudson (OH) Presbyterian Church left the PC(USA) and joined the EPC. Not only are our previously-ordained women elders still elders, we just examined and ordained a new class which included several women members. I'm not on Session or the nominating committee, so I don't know what kind of conversations went on, but from the "view in the pew," it was a non-issue.
  • Jim Watson 6 Feb, 11:32 PM

    @Beloved Spear: On the contrary it would appear that the EPC is "struggling" very hard to justified the ordination women. Clearly if the bible is truly the inspired word of God and final authority on all matters on which it speaks,
    then 1 Timothy chapters 2 and3 contradicts women having authority over men which means women are not called to preach the word of God or administer the sacraments.



  • martha 15 Feb, 10:52 PM

    @Jim Watson - Amen.
  • Loren Golden 17 Mar, 01:02 PM

    @Jim Watson: The issue of the ordination of women is not as clear-cut in Scripture as you make it to be. Please refer to my previous letter to the Layman Online at http://www.layman.org/LettersToTheEditor.aspx?article=22048 in which I address this issue at greater length.
  • Cameron Mott 7 May, 02:43 PM

    Just so I'm clear, no former-PCUSA female teaching elders have been ordained into a non-transitional EPC Presbytery?
  • @ Cameron 24 Jun, 08:17 PM

    Cameron: as of this time there have been several female TEs received into the "regular" presbyteries of the EPC.
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