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"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." (Joshua 24:15)

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Shepherding from solid rock to shifting sands

The conversation started something like this: “What am I going to tell my people?”

 

On the other end of the line was a young pastor who is heart-broken over the potential that his denomination is about to sever itself from the faith once delivered to the saints. As he put it, “With this level of departure from the Word of God, with this level of acceptance of sin, how can I continue in honesty and integrity?” 

 

He is not angry. He is wounded. He is not threatening to lead his congregation out, but he feels led to renounce his ordination in a denomination he does not want to be seen as representing. He has elders and deacons facing the same dilemma and they are looking to him for guidance, counsel and leadership.

 

“This is an old southern church, so the property issue is not an issue, if it comes to that,” he assured himself.

 

I hesitated through a long sigh before breaking it to him. “That is not necessarily the case. According to what the denomination’s lawyers are arguing in the Carrolton case, having voted for the exception in G-8.0701, which was designed to exempt former PCUS congregations from the denomination’s church property restrictions (G-8.0500), does not protect you from the ‘trust’ that the PCUSA has imposed on local church property (G-8.0200).”

 

“You’re kidding!” he protested.

 

“Sorry, but I’m not kidding. They argue that trust clause applies to all local church property, both real and personal, no matter how it is titled. They say that when former southern churches filed for the exception they only freed themselves from the requirement that local churches obtain written permission from the presbytery before they buy, sell or mortgage local church property. That in and of itself, they argue, doesn’t free your property from their asserted trust.”

 

In what I can characterize as barely more audible than a whimper, he pleaded, “O God.” I could almost see his shoulders slump and his forehead fall into his hand, bowed deeply over his cluttered pastor’s desk.

 

Pastoral ministry has never been easy. People have a myriad of expectations that often run far afield of what seminarians are academically prepared for. Most Presbyterian candidates come out of large congregations with robust ministry programs and staffs. They will in turn mostly serve very small congregations of older adults for whom the world is like a blurr, spinning and changing in ways they do not like and at a pace they cannot manage. They come to church to stand with other believers on the solid rock amidst all the shifting sands of post-modern life.

 

That is now changing too. How then are pastors and elders to shepherd the flock of God entrusted to their care from solid rock to shifting sands?

 

My counsel to this one young pastor was:

 

  1. Get on your knees with the people in your congregation who you know are prepared to put their faces on the floor and plead with the Father.
  2. Convene a joint meeting of your session and diaconate and lay out the realities.   
  3. Have them convene a meeting of your entire college of officers: every ordained officer in your congregation.

 

“That’s nearly half the congregation!” he said. “That’s the point,” I replied. “The secular media is going to be all over this. Your people are going to wake up one morning and USA Today or CNN is going to run a story declaring that Presbyterians now openly ordain gay clergy. You don’t want your officers to be caught off guard and you want them to be prepared to respond to their neighbors and the local media with grace and truth. This may be for your church leaders an unprecedented opportunity to declare what your local congregation believes and where it stands. When was the last time the paper called to do a story on what Presbyterians believe? When they call this time, your entire college of officers need to be prepared to answer with one voice, affirming the Scriptures and acknowledging that by its action, the PCUSA has departed from them.”

 

“What else?” he asked.

 

“Steel yourselves for what may come,” was all I could think to add.

 

A long silence followed. Words were not necessary. We shared a sober understanding of the uncertain future we face as ordained officers in a denomination that stands on the verge of a precipice. Warnings of the harm such a step would cause have been issued time and time again. But ears are itchy and too many simply want to do what is right in their own eyes.

 

Finally, I suggested we pray. That suggestion stands – even as we move from solid rock to shifting sands.   

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Comments  20

  • Tom 7 Apr, 03:56 PM

    Hello Carmen, Thank you for your tireless efforts to keep us on the Biblical track. Thank you for speaking out against changing what the Bible says, to fit in regard to gay ordination and gay marriage. Thank you for your many attempts to leave the Book of Order alone and keep PCUSA together. Let those who are endlessly pushing for gay rights, go find a church that has already made that mistake. I pray that the Presbytery voting will not take us to those major changes for PCUSA, but it´s looking grim, I´m afraid.
  • Reverend Patricia Slomanski 7 Apr, 04:00 PM

    I too have almost grieved myself to death over what seems to be the inevitable. What am I to do? How can I serve in a church that sanctions and even approves of what the Bible clearly says is sin - not just any ordinary sin but sin that goes against creation itself, sin that harms the body and the soul of those who participate in it, sin that is very clearly and firmly condemned in the Old and New Testaments. My heart is broken. The church of my childhood has changed before my eyes, but not before I have given years of my life in training for ministry and serving in the church. Jesu Juva. Jesus, help us. Jesus, help the PCUSA.
  • Reverend Patricia Slomanski 7 Apr, 04:01 PM

    I too have almost grieved myself to death over what seems to be the inevitable. What am I to do? How can I serve in a church that sanctions and even approves of what the Bible clearly says is sin - not just any ordinary sin but sin that goes against creation itself, sin that harms the body and the soul of those who participate in it, sin that is very clearly and firmly condemned in the Old and New Testaments. My heart is broken. The church of my childhood has changed before my eyes, but not before I have given years of my life in training for ministry and serving in the church. Jesu Juva. Jesus, help us. Jesus, help the PCUSA.
  • Roger Franklin 7 Apr, 04:22 PM

    Carmen, as I read the 10-A amendment, mention of ALL sexual sin will be removed from ordination vows. Thus, we could well see not only homosexuals ordained but also adulterers, fornicators, polygamists, pederasts, incestuous lrelationships, "intersexuals," the whole LGBT list of categories and more. I can only imagine the lawsuits that will eventually ensue due to the willful omission of sexual sin from ordinations vows, no matter how many "sexual ethics" training courses are used a a defense. Congregations need to leave the PC(USA) NOW.
  • Larry G. Pittman 7 Apr, 05:53 PM

    I feel for this young Pastor. The day I was approved for ordination as Pastor of the two churches I had been serving as Student Pastor, was the same day that Atlanta Presbytery put the merger of 1983 (I refuse to call it "reunion") over the top. Mecklenburg Presbytery voted for it that same day, shortly after approving my examination for ordination. I sat there bewildered and overwhelmed. I came very close to rising at the presbytery meeting and withdrawing my request for ordination. I decided not to do it because I knew this event was not the fault of the people of those two congregations who had stood by me and been so supportive of my preparation for ordination. I didn't feel I could just leave them in a lurch just because I did not want to enter into the merger. But I knew, even then, and had said so repeatedly, that this merger was all about consolidating the power of the liberals in the PCUS and the UPCUSA into the new denomination they formed. I have tried to make the best of it, and done what I could to serve Bible-believing members who still remain. But I don't see how I can continue to be part of an apostate denomination, which the PCUSA will surely show itself to be if the ordination of unrepentant sodomites and lesbians and adulterers becomes standard practice within it. I am amazed at how many folks do not understand that the exemption in chapter 8 of the Book of Order does not apply to the "held in trust" issue. I have had to explain it myself to church members numerous times. I have never tried to take a congregation out of the PCUSA, and do not intend to do so. I do believe they have the right to make that choice, if they feel so led; but it must not have anything to do with me as their Pastor. I know for a fact, from what folks have said to me in various congregations, that many more congregations would have withdrawn from the PCUSA already, if not for the "trust" clause and the fear of losing their property. This is a great injustice, which should have been forcefully challenged from the beginning. What the answer will be for this young Pastor and his congregation, and many others like them, I do not know. As for me, if the fidelity and chastity language is removed from our Book of Order, I will have no choice but to begin in earnest to seek a call outside the PCUSA. I have looked into this before, and found nowhere to go. Some of my colleagues have said, "We need you to stay in and help us reform the PCUSA." So I have stuck around trying to help do that. However, I do not desire to continue fighting on a sinking ship.
  • Antley 7 Apr, 07:45 PM

    Go Carmen, Go Carmen! praying with you!!
  • Herman Tracy French 7 Apr, 08:08 PM

    If Amendment "B" passes, and indeed it looks certain that it will, I am wondering that since this is such a deviation away from Scripture, will it not give us a legal avenue to take our property and run.
  • Catherine McGowen 7 Apr, 08:17 PM

    In this heartbreaking situation, where evil is called good, we find ourselves being asked the "wrong question!" They ask us, aren't we suppose to "love our neighbor?"
    That really has never been the issue but a diversion..."there is no king in Israel, and everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes," except it is in our own denomination this time! Sad.
    I could give the "theology" of it all, but you believe the same way I do...it is embarrassing to allow the "world" to see what is filthy "inside the church"!
  • Robert E. McCaslin, Jr. 7 Apr, 09:38 PM

    I just wanted to thank you for your blog.

    I appreciate your concerns. However, I have come to question whether or not presbyterianism, in its various manifestations, is actually "the faith once delivered to the saints". I see this as an unreolved core issue. Do I really need to elaborate?

    Furthermore, I am amused, if not amazed,
    at the snail pace in which reality seems to be setting in. The ecclesiastical turmoil and "subversion" has been going on for quite some time. Did no one notice? The specific sexuality issues are not strickly "post modern", by a long shot.

    Lets face the fact that presbyterians are "selectively fundamentalist". Unless you want to reinstate slavery, believe the world is flat, start executing witches, etc. there is going to have to be a more useful response than quoting our favorite bible verse.

    Despite all the moralizing, this discussion always deteriorates into a "property rights"debate.

    In an effort at full disclosure, you should know that I requested to be "released from my vows" about 20 years ago. I think it was on the occasion of the communion service done by National staff, dedicated to the goddess Sophia!

    With warm regard,
    Robert E. McCaslin, Jr. M.Div. et al
  • leanne mcginney 8 Apr, 09:36 AM

    1. Presbyterians have long had a fair and democratic process for determining denominational positions.
    2. If you don't like the outcome, your are free to propose a change at the next GA.
    3. If you don't like the outcome and decide that you do not wish to accept the decision of the majority, Leaving the churh is your choice and your responsibility.
    4. Our denomination is reformed and reforming. that means change. Accept it. That's my advice.
    5One more thing. If 10-A passes, it does not mean that your own congregation need ever allow a gay to serve in a leadership position in your particular church. So you see, you are not really a victim here, IMO.
  • Frank Norment 8 Apr, 10:08 AM

    My Session has just now started to have "the conversation". My first question to them was--"Why have you delayed this so long. This has been an issue for many years". Needless to say things are in a very confused state at present.
  • Bruce Shown 8 Apr, 04:08 PM

    Hello,

    Everytime I read the Layman I want to throw up.

    The PCUSA is spiritually dead and the Christian churches remaining under that name need to pay whatever the price is to get free whether they win in court or not.

    What is happening now in the PCUSA is of man and not of God--it will not survive.

    I know the pain this is going to cause. I think I am just telling you what you already know.
  • L. Lee 8 Apr, 07:28 PM

    Yes, many are feeling and asking the questions this young pastor is asking.
    We are questioning if we can maintain our covenental relationship with this denomination with the current changes: acceptance of the Belhar, loose ordination standards and new Form of Government. This is not the same denomination I joined many years ago.
    Prayer and seeking God are necessary as you so rightly point out.
    We also need to remember what God is like and know that He can do far beyond anything we can dream or imagine. One of the catch phrases right now is that the church needs to move beyond it's four walls and be out where people are, bringing them in to Christ. Maybe God is orchastrating this need to move out - really move out - beyond this denomination in a way He knows will provide an even greater harvest.
    Tell this Pastor to be encouraged, to be alert, to see the great things that God can do......even if that means leaving, moving out, or standing against the tide of popular opinion. The record of how God moves in history, in His church, in His people is clear - He can bring about His purpose in the broken mess this denomination is in and lead those who are faithful to a new place of power in His church. It may not be in this denomination? Let's keep our spiritual eyes open.
  • Rev Dan Clark 9 Apr, 08:57 AM

    I am sorry this young pastor feels so betrayed. But the colonist came here for religious freedom. My advice: move on; find a church that matches your theology and feel free to share it to anyone and everyone. Presbyterians do not own any special insight into God's truth. Be happy in the Lord!
  • leanne mcginney 9 Apr, 08:04 PM

    There is a legitimate Presbyterian proceedure that gives every congregation an opportunity to be heard and vote. If you do not like the outcome, you are welcome to bring it up at the next GA. No need to leave the denomination.

    Please post; this is a second attempt to leave a comment. thank you.
  • Jim 12 Apr, 09:54 AM

    Carmen--I'm a retired Episcopal minister and have watched our church go down this path. A big part of my decision to retire early is that I couldn't take being the official local representative of the denomination any more. After six years of educational effort by me, the congregation wasn't inclined to take any kind of stand. I feel for the young pastor in your post.

    What is the voting threshold for the new rule to go to the final GA vote? Are you assuming that it will pass?

    Are there other blogs covering this from a traditional standpoint?

    Thank you for your efforts.
  • Gene O'Dell 13 Apr, 11:04 AM

    Wow...the fear and loathing I see here over the idea that a congregation in the next county might call a lesbian with a D.Min, and whose session and congregation love and respect her, reminds me of the threats of leaving, with or without property, and the pain, whining and knashing of teeth, and the formation of groups like the Confessing Church Movement over the issue of abortion..

    The Denomination does, after all, support abortion rights, and our health care plan pays for them for our pastors, staff and their families.

    And the letters to the editor from young pastors who wondered how he could explain what he saw as the sanctioned killing of children, and the mass movments, such as the CCM, followed by property disputes, and lawsuits over buildings and goods, all over the killing of children, really stands out in my memory.

    Oh, wait...that did not happen.

    Lots of lip service..but, no "movements" were proclaimed that I remember. If they were, I don't think they got off the ground...no list of congregations, publicly posted, that would not support abortion, which they saw as the killing of innocent children, occured. Small groups like PPL formed, but, they did not exactly catch fire with the people in the pews, and overtures to overturn the abortion policy went nowhere, but, I dont remember dozens of churches saying this was a reason to leave, or such passionate whining in letters to the editor.

    But, a congregation being able to call a seminary graduate who has answered the call to ministry and whose congregation thinks she will help their congregation in its service to God...well....get out the ashes and sackcloth.

    It says a lot about those who are so opposed to gay ordination, but, willing to let what they see as child killing, go on. Oh, the later is opposed, but, the difference in the passion, the priorities...and, in the real motivations of those so opposed to gay ordination, is plain to see.

    And before anyone says "Well, we could not fight both", I will point out most people can do two things at once. And even if you could do only one thing at once, it would say a lot about your priorities, doesn't it?
  • Raymond Hiller,elder 14 Apr, 11:15 AM

    As there is a time for all things, now is the time to end this turmoil and leave this shell of a church.
    Those who fought for so many years are now gone or are leaving. Those who remain have won this battle and must live with what they have brought upon themselves.
    I am tired and drained of any fire I once had in my sole. The day that this now occurring vote is tallied and should it favor the new and pitiful direction of the church I grew to love, I will leave just as Lot did and never look back.
    The peace of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ be with you.
  • Lucky 28 Apr, 11:07 AM

    Walinkg in the presence of giants here. Cool thinking all around!
  • Bob Moors 25 May, 02:56 PM

    I have tried to see the other side on this topic. I have finally come to a conclusion which allows me to accept this decision.

    God uses sinners to accomplish his will. Example David killed someone to have his wife. The bible tells us that only one sin is not forgiven. Sin against the Holy Spirit.

    God choses who he will use, not us. He has proven he can use anyone.

    We want to offer God our best, if our best is truly a Homosexual Minister and there was no other sinner who was repentant, I guess I can see approving that individual.
    This would be a very rare event and is not the real world.
    We are wasting too much time on this issue and the Devil is a winning. This issue should have never gotten to a vote and should have been handled on a case by case basis as an exception and not the rule.
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