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Answering questions about the passing Amendment 10A

Carmen answers the questions she has been hearing frequently since the passage of Amendment 10A.

 

Q: As a conservative, what should I do and what should our church do as the PCUSA moves toward gay ordination?

 

A: First of all, let’s clarify: There are no genuine "conservatives" in the PCUSA if by conservative you mean radical-right or fundamentalist Christians. The very fact that the most conservative organization in the denomination, The Presbyterian Lay Committee, is led by an ordained woman speaks to that reality. Over the past 45 years the PCUSA has migrated so far to the left that we can no longer see the right from our current vantage point.

 

The vote to eliminate all standards of sexual practice is not a sudden dramatic departure from the historic faith. This is but one stride further along a path that diverted many years ago from the Westminster standards, the five Solas of the Reformation, genuine submission to the authority and Lordship of Jesus Christ and the revelation of the will of God in the Word of God. The PCUSA has been breaking itself apart over liberal and progressive agendas since 1925. We are simply now reaping the fruit of what has been sown.

 

And that fruit is not simply gay ordination. The new language adopted by the majority vote of PCUSA presbyteries allows for the ordination of non-celibate single heterosexuals, married people who commit adultery, people practicing open marriage, as well as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

 

Now, to your question about "expected responses" among "conservatives." I will take the question in two parts: for congregations who can be so identified and for individuals, whose responses will be more immediate and potentially more radical than the congregations of which they are currently a member.

 

I foresee that congregations within the PCUSA who describe themselves variously as evangelical, conservative, orthodox or traditional in their beliefs and practice will choose one of four paths forward.

 

1. Some will avoid all sense of conflict by acting as if nothing has really changed. This will reinforce what many already experience as de facto congregationalism. They will say to their neighbors, "That's the national church. That's not us." One variation on this theme will be the acknowledgment that although the official rules have changed, "it doesn't apply to us." These people are hoping that the change will have no force or effect in their context. One wonders how such will fare when the time comes to call a new pastor or receive into their community those ordained elsewhere in the nation. One also wonders how these congregations will respond further down the road when the issue is not ordination but the wholesale redefinition of marriage and mandatory payments to the Board of Pensions to support benefits for the same-sex partners of church employees.

 

2. Some will leave to join other existing branches of the Presbyterian church. This path has already been trod by more than 100 churches in the past few years. Many have departed over the bridge built by the New Wineskins Association of Churches to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC). But others have departed to the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC), the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) and to independence. Where it is possible, these congregations will seek gracious dismissal from their current presbyteries. In more hostile settings, disaffiliation will be the path they cut. Real and financial property will be at issue as the denomination continues to assert an imposed trust over all local church property. (See the Second Edition, A Guide to Church Property Law, ed. Lloyd Lunceford, 2010.)

 

3. A group called Fellowship-PCUSA is working to lay the groundwork on a multi-faceted model that seeks to alleviate the conscience of those who do not necessarily want to stay but whose congregations are too hetero-genius to achieve a sufficient vote to leave or are located in states where current church property law favors the denomination's assertion of trust. They also universally want to get beyond the morality debates that have mired the PCUSA for decades. Their missional design includes creating as many shadow-presbyteries within existing presbyteries as is possible as well as a new (but still tangentially connected) denomination for those who must leave but don't want to go to the EPC, PCA, ECC or elsewhere. The model envisions subscription to a list of essentials, realignment into new presbyteries, a national association of like-hearted missionally-minded Presbyterians and a return to accountability that is based in Calvin's "company" of pastors and elders. Great hope is being placed in this group of tall steeple pastors by many smaller congregations across the country. They will meet August 25-27 in Minneapolis.

 

4. Finally, there are those uniquely called to remain within the PCUSA as a witness to the truth, no matter what. These missionaries have a very special anointing by the Holy Spirit. They will not be silenced and they cannot be driven out for fear of the rising tides of cultural accommodation. They have a Jeremiah like calling and spirit. They will ultimately recast what "renewal" will mean in the next generation and they will find easy fellowship with their counterparts in the Word Alone network in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in American (ELCA), the Good News movement in the United Methodist Church (UMC), and the Faithful and Welcoming churches of the United Church of Christ (UCC).

 

The larger question for a denomination that has lost more than half its members in a generation is "what will individual members do?" For some the line in the sand was the vote itself. They are already gone. For others, the line in the sand will be news of the first actual ordination of an openly gay candidate for ministry. That could occur as early as July 10 for elders and deacons and soon thereafter for ministers of the Word and sacrament. For others, the line in the sand will be a decision of the denomination's General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission (GAPJC) that so subverts the truth that it can no longer be said that the PCUSA adheres in any way to the revealed Word of God in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. The GAPJC has relevant cases pending before it. Those cases will be heard the last week of July.

 

Two other lines in the sand are already foreseeable. The first is the redefinition of marriage. Overtures will come again to the 2012 meeting of the General Assembly in July in Pittsburgh. As an amendment to the Book of Order's Directory for Worship, the voting cycle would take an additional year. However, to genuinely redefine marriage in the PCUSA, several changes would have to made to the Book of Confessions. That process requires majority votes by two successive General Assemblies (2012 and 2014) and a 2/3 majority vote of presbyteries. The more pressing line is the extension of benefits to same-sex domestic partners through the Presbyterian Board of Pensions plan (likely to occur January 2013). Participation in the plan is mandatory for all PCUSA churches and there is currently no way to opt out.

Q: There’s some talk that the vote on 10A is the fault of the New Wineskins’ churches that have left. Do you agree? What other factors contributed to the shift in the vote?

 

A: Actual departures certainly hurt the vote in a few presbyteries but it is blame-casting to point at those who left and say it’s their fault that we are where we are. In a denomination that claims to have more than 10,000 congregations, it is silly to say that the departure of just over 100 could swing the vote so far so fast. Too many presbyteries flipped in this voting cycle to blame the change on those who have left via New Wineskins.

 

In some presbyteries specialized and retired clergy outnumber the ministers who are actually serving viable congregations. We know by our own Presbyterian Panel surveys that the further removed a person is from the pews, the more liberal their theology. We also know that based on 2009 statistics, more than half of the PCUSA's congregations have less than 97 members, and the majority of those function without pastoral leadership. Who then is informing and equipping those congregations for votes on issues at presbytery meetings? Are they even showing up to vote? An additional problem is faced when larger churches, which tend to be more conservative, are under-represented at presbytery meetings. Working age lay people are also generally under-represented as many presbyteries meet on week-days. There is also the issue of fatigue. People are tired of saying "no," even though "no" is the right thing to say.

 

Q: It seems like there are fewer Renewal groups than there used to be. Who are the people that oppose gay ordination and what are they planning to do now?

 

A: Again, the issue is much larger than gay ordination. What we're facing is a departure from any explicit expectation of sexual behavior among the ordained leadership of Presbyterian churches. We're talking about non-celibate unmarried heterosexuals, married heterosexuals who do not restrict their sexual experiences to their spouse, as well as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. The key opponents and groups to all that? In reality, the majority of Presbyterians in the pews – who did not get to vote on the matter. It is yet to be seen how many of them will vote in the coming weeks, months and years by finding more fertile church soil in which to cultivate their lives in Christ and produce good fruit for His Kingdom.

 

A bevy of folks have posted responses to the action. It would be worth reading the statements by the Presbyterian Lay Committee, the Presbyterian Renewal Network, the Institute on Religion and Democracy, Presbyterians for Renewal and the Presbyterian Coalition.

 

Please submit your questions pertaining to the passing of Amendment 10-A to Carmen.

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Comments  21

  • Loren Golden 18 May, 11:43 AM

    In regards to the second question about NWAC congregations that have departed the PCUSA for the EPC shifting the vote, I can assure you that when the congregation in which I serve as a deacon, Colonial Presbyterian Church in Kansas City, voted this past August to disaffiliate from the PCUSA and to affiliate instead with the NWAC and the EPC, our departure may have made the disparity of votes in Heartland Presbytery greater between those opposed to Biblical ordination standards and those in favor of them, but our departure did not shift the majority vote in Heartland Presbytery, which has consistently voted against Biblically-based sexual morality standards for ordained officers since G-6.0106b was originally added to the Book of Order in 1997.
  • Jan Kennedy 18 May, 02:19 PM

    Thank you so much for your usual measured response. You provide so much content in your articles, studies, and news reports. I am thanking you for at least 20 years of reading the Layman.
    Jan Kennedy
  • niels rasmussen 18 May, 03:06 PM

    A very well-written and perceptive article. I am just glad I left the PC(USA) for the PCA fifteen years ago.
  • Bob Moors 18 May, 05:30 PM

    I see a 5th option. Stay and clean house. Local Elders need to determine if this was what the local church members wanted. If not they need to take a hard look at the employment of the minister. This was approved largely by the ministers in the local church.
  • Chuck Jeffries 18 May, 06:37 PM

    Many of us have dreaded this moment. While I was on session in the early 90's we wrestled with what our response would be if the PCUSA voted to allow ordination of active and unrepentant GLBT ministers or officers. That day has come. On Sunday we will hear what our leadership proposes. Frankly, I don't see how the "conservative" congregations can keep their unique character in the denomination as it operates today and moving forward.

    I must say that I am bewildered by the response from the official voices of our denomination. Are they deluded, or are they just trying to pretend that the passage of 10-A is just another way for us to celebrate our differences together? More churches will leave the denomination than they imagine. Shadow Presbyteries, parallel government and separate standards should all be unthinkable in a relational church. They are about to become a reality. Permanent withholding of per capita by large numbers of churches will further weaken the PCUSA. Jesus wept.
  • Mitch 18 May, 07:33 PM

    What will happen when the LGBT crowd of unemployable ministers demand help in finding a congregation?
    Will nFog help the PCUSA change the way ministers are called?
    The ink will not be dried on 10-A in July when the "gay marriage" issue raises its ugly head.
    Those who think this issue won't come to a church dear to them better think again!
  • bill lafferty 19 May, 02:16 AM

    Having read many articles since this disasterous vote one question has not been adressed. What does the PCUSA do with that pesky 7th commandent, possibly just cross out the word NOT? Bill Lafferty former PCUSA Elder
  • Donald Denton 19 May, 04:25 AM

    Good analysis. I am one "specialized minister" who goes against the grain of what is typical. Jeremiah is my favorite prophet.
  • John 19 May, 11:05 AM

    I think a distinction needs to be made between a couple of things. First, I think there can be some legitimate disagreement surrounding the meaning of "pornia" as translated from Greek into English. Some say it means any sexual relations outside of marriage, others that it refers to temple prostitution. Either way, that is an entirely separate issue from adultery, around which there is no disagreement regarding its meaning.

    I have participated in too many workshops and seminars on the issue of boundaries and clergy misconduct to even begin to imagine that such behavior is now in any way acceptable. I do not foresee churches, presbyteries, or the GA rewriting their misconduct policies in the light of 10-A. While misconduct behavior needs to be treated with confession , compassion, and forgiveness. It also needs to addressed with accountability.

    Over the centuries the Christian church has made many mistakes "by schisms rent usunder, by heresies distressed", and yet the faith has survived and grown. Time will tell if this latest change in the PC(USA) is "good, bad, or ugly." The call of the faithful is to be prophetic, calling the church honor the will of Christ in mission, witness, and grace.
  • Alan 19 May, 12:55 PM

    Thanks for the article Carmen. My prayers are for those in our former Presbytery who will continue to live with their heads in the sands because their pastors are too close to retirement to rock the boat.

    I heard that implicitly expressed by at least four preachers, all evangelical, at least two by what one would label "tall steeple" congregations.

    In the long run I believe the PC(USA) will simply continue to hemorrhage members.

    Peace,
    Alan
    Portland, OR.
  • L. Lee 19 May, 08:42 PM

    Carmen,
    What would be the effect of large groups of members posting resignation letters to their sessions in response to this vote. Would that be a wake up call. If the majority of members in the pew want their voice to be heard, would with drawing membership make a difference? If I decide that this is a best course for me, can I still be active in my local Presbyterian Church, unofficially.
    I have an effective ministry to women that I do not want to disturb, but I am not sure if I can continue to be linked in covenant with this denomination. The changes to this denomination for me mean that it is no longer the same as when I joined and I cannot be evangelistic in encouraging people to make a commitment to this denomination. or live out their Christian life here.
    One other questions: Why did the "tall steepel" white paper pastors wait so long to stand up and voice their objections? Presbyteries do not represent the majority of people, are ruled by progressives who make sure they send their own to the GA and hence we get continued votes on these issues before us like A-10 and N-Fog. Yet, the ones who maybe have some clout and power waited so long to object.
    They have not been looking out for their flock and now it is (almost) too late.
    You are correct in that the pastors are the loosers, because now the battles will be fought in the local churches.
  • Carmen Fowler LaBerge 20 May, 10:33 AM

    Just got a question about the pending GAPJC cases. Taking just one: Parnell v. San Francisco, re: ordination of a candidate who refuses to abide by fidelity/chastity. Seems like a moot point after the passage of 10A, right? Wrong. The arguments being made are based on Scripture's clarity on the subject of Godly sexual ethics as well as the Historic Principles of Church order, esp. G-1.0307. If those arguing the case can get the PJC to say that even without fidelity/chastity explicit in the constitution, the Bible is clear on the subject and therefore prevents the ordination of any person living outside the clear Biblical parameters of sexual practice (fidelity/chastity), we will then have a ruling that will serve as an AI of the new G-6.0106b. The case will be heard in Louisville, July 29.
  • Carmen Fowler LaBerge 20 May, 12:04 PM

    L. Lee, another person asked me similar question wondering if there could be a new category added like "member in dissent" or "protesting member." It would be "extra-constitutional" but you can ask your session for anything and they just might do it. Whatever you decide to do, do it in writing.

    Communicate with your Session in a way that honors their leadership, acknowledges the difficult position they are in, expresses your personal position with grace and truth, and commits to pray for them and support them as they lead the people whom God has committed to their care.

    In your letter, you should ask for the opportunity to speak with them in person at the next meeting of the Session. There you can ask them to study the relationship of your congregation to the denomination in light of the passage of Amendment 10A.

    And yes, even if you resign your membership you can remain an active participant in the worship and work of your congregation. You should ask to read the policy of your particular church in terms of ministry leadership. Most churches do not limit the role that can be played by an active participant even if that person is not officially a member. But you should verify that.



    Resigning your membership also alleviates your Session from any sense of obligation regarding the payment of per capita. If all the members resign, the church has no per capita assessment. Now, the Session members cannot resign but everyone else certainly could. In most presbyteries the difference in voting representatives at presbytery would not be affected. Your worship numbers would far outpace your membership stats, but who cares? Namely, those who are tallying membership numbers as a way of assessing per capita.

    In all things remember: you are a living demonstration of Christ to others and He was full of grace and truth.

    In Him,
    Carmen
  • Howard 20 May, 09:00 PM

    Remain within the Church, but do not forward any monies to G.A., or Synod.

    They will die off without the individual church's financial support.

  • Jane 25 May, 02:30 PM

    Carmen, You have obviously done your research and have done a great job of relaying information. The only question I have is what happened to God's Word in all this? I don't understand how (Leviticus 18:22) "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." and (1Timothy 1:10) "The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine," can be interpreted any other way than the way intended. Were these and other verses ommited when the decision was made to pass the amendment? If this is the case then there is a whole new issue at hand in that scriptures state that no one is to add to or take away from the words of God (Rev 22:18-19). Help me understand this please.

    In Christ, Jane Leach Nales
  • Carmen Fowler LaBerge 26 May, 03:48 PM

    Jane, excellent question. You have pierced right to the heart of the matter. At the most basic of levels, this is in fact a debate about the Scriptures, how they are viewed and interpreted, and in what way people submit with varying degrees to what God reveals about His will for human behavior therein.

    Everyone involved on all sides of the debate will tell you that they "submit to the authority of the Word of God." What they mean by that statement varies dramatically.

    Many years ago, back in the 1920's, the northern branch of what is now the Presbyterian Church (USA) removed submission to the Bible as the inerrant Word of God from its ordination vows. It wasn't much of an issue until the Confessional standard (which had always been exclusively Westminster) was diluted by the adoption of an entire book of confessions in the late 1960s. At Reunion (in 1983), the more liberal standards became the standard for all churches in the PCUSA. Since then, all ordained Presbyterian officers have taken the following vow in relationship to their Bible: "Do you accept the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be, by the Holy Spirit, the unique and authoritative witness to Jesus Christ in the Church universal, and God's Word to you?" Further, they commit to "fulfill" their "office in obedience to Jesus Christ, under the authority of Scripture." However, virtually every word of those two vows has multiple meanings in our common life.

    Receiving the two testaments of the Bible as an "unique and authoritative" does not require acknowledging that God is the author, that the Bible is inerrant nor infallible, nor does it require acknowledging that the Bible alone is the Word of God. Some ordained officers in the PCUSA have publicly acknowledged that they view the Bible as one witness among many. They receive Jesus as authoritative, but not all of the Scriptures. So, Jesus has been separated from the very Word through which He is made known.

    Then comes the matter of interpretation. Once you have demoted the Bible to a status of any other work of antiquity, you feel free to subject it to what is known as "the historical-critical method." The Bible is no longer the lens through which we view life, seeking to gain God's perspective and submitting to God's Spirit to bring us into active conformity with His revealed will. The Bible is instead a piece of literature subject to human interpretation based on the various perspectives and life-experiences of those reading it. It does not edit us, we edit it. And authority is completely subverted.

    How can two people reading the same passages, like the ones you've noted, come to completely different conclusions about the veracity, meaning and applicability of the text to their life today?
    One receives the Bible as the authentic and reliable revelation of a real God who is sovereign over all time and saw today before the world was ever made. He authored the Bible as a gift of grace so that people could know Him and His will. God has a pre-ordained redemptive plan for history and He is actively working it out even today. This reader desires to discern God's will in order to actively and submissively participate in it.

    The other receives the Bible as one reference point to the Word of God, but not itself the Word of God. Other points of relevant reference include their life experiences, their perception of Jesus, their aspirations, the concerns of humanity and a progressive view of history. They desire to actively participate in a redemption of all things that is dependent upon human advancement, the cultivation of peace, the equalization of the marginalized and a genuinely pluralistic theology that accepts all religions that help advance that vision of history as equally valid. They also invalidate all religions that do not share their vision.

    Do you see the difference? We're really talking here about the reality of people of two very different faiths both calling themselves "presbyterian."
  • Jane 26 May, 08:08 PM

    Thank you Carmen...I'm prefer to remain on the side that takes the Bible as the TRUE word of God and accept it as is and its literal intent!!! Presbyterian or not we are to recognize the trinity as God, Jesus His Son and The Holy Spirit and the only way to Heaven and everlasting life is through Jesus Christ.

    I am truly saddened that these issues cloud the vision of our Sovereign Lord. The enemy is having a field day convincing some to take their eyes off of the prize, our Lord!!

    I suppose it is safe to say that all denominations have their "persons" who give them an undesirable "name".

    Stand firm my sister. "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." Eph 6:10-12 NASB
  • Loren Golden 27 May, 12:13 PM

    Well put, Carmen. I could not have said it better myself.
  • Al 1 Jun, 10:16 PM

    Good that someone takes up for Gresham Machen and his family. They were Christians and Presbys of a devout degree amid a high cultural status (unlike the characterization some give/gave him). Even his opponents such as Pearl Buck and H L Mencken admitted his intellectual skills and honesty.

    Jesus Christ didn't exactly get a fine reception from the establishment of the Covenant People either. We are seeking a city that is not built with hands...that would be Heaven.

    The experience of marginalization due to a stand for the Written Word is well chronicled by the Dennison book that the OPs have published, History for a Pilgrim People. I know that presby-world is not going to rush into the Orthodox PC.

    Yet their experience with being pushed aside for a Christological reason is more than a tad normative for all of us in the various "wagon trains." I think of the Old Covenant Jews missing the riches of Egypt on their way to the promised land. But they never gave up.
  • Barry Woolner 11 Jul, 04:28 PM

    I appreciated your comments when answering the "What should Conservatives Do" question. As you stated, there are very few, if any radical right Christians in the PCUSA. If there were a larger number, more of the departing congregations would be heading toward a confessional church like the PCA.

    Please remember that the denomination refused to allow those who held the traditional position concerning the ordination of woman to be ordained after 1975. By 1979 every congregation was required to have female elders or they had to receive a 'waiver' from their Presbytery.

    It will be interesting to see if the homosexual issue is 'resolved' the same way.
  • Cheryl Emberton 30 Aug, 04:56 PM

    In the passing of 10A, does this mean, that if a homosexual is approved for pastor, elder,deacon,or some other type of leadership, that he or she can still carry on their homosexual relations???????????
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